80k would be happy to see more projects in the careers space

post by Michelle_Hutchinson · 2022-06-21T18:02:58.057Z · EA · GW · 7 comments

Contents

  People can be hesitant to set up new projects
  Setting up new projects can be easier because EAs are on the same team
  1on1 team plans
  Suggestions for other career related projects
  Have a go!
None
7 comments

Tl;dr: I’d love to see more people working on helping others in the careers space, as would others at 80k. There’s a lot to do, from one-off chats to give effective altruism a friendly face, to ongoing mentorship for people earlier on in the same path as you, to setting up an EA recruiting agency.

 

Something I love about the EA community is how collaborative it is. We’re all trying to figure out the best ways to help others, and also to support fellow community members in their projects to help others. A negative side effect of that can be that we are hesitant to try out an idea for fear of treading on someone’s toes, or of getting in the way of someone who might have done that project better. I want to make a brief pitch for people to worry less about that in the careers space, particularly when it comes to talking to others one on one about their careers. 

I run the 80k one-on-one team, so I’ll just give examples related to 1on1, but others at 80k are likewise happy to see more projects in the careers space! 

 

People can be hesitant to set up new projects

I’ve sometimes heard people indicate that if they were to set up a new project they think it shouldn’t be in the careers space because “80k has it covered.” I’m here to say that’s decidedly not the case! 

Even more saddening to me is that people are sometimes worried about working in the space in case people at 80k won’t take it well. I think that is extremely understandable. I hate competing with others, particularly others with the same goals as me. I hate feeling like we’re against each other when we could be with each other. And the last thing I want is to be running the risk of doing harm by getting in someone else’s way. If you feel this way, please be assured that 80k would be affirmatively excited about you trying something in this area.

 

Setting up new projects can be easier because EAs are on the same team

I think it’s reasonable to claim that, despite its difficulties, competition is worth it because of its good effects. But I don't think we need to think of it as competition in the first place. The general space of ‘help people have impactful careers by engaging with them individually’ is important and large. There are so many groups doing useful work in the career space, from the Global Challenges Project getting the most talented students into the highest-impact career paths to productivity coaching which helps people get the most out of the career they’re in. A couple of recent additions are Charity Entrepreneurship’s career coaching [EA · GW] and EA Pathfinder

Groups setting out to do essentially the same thing as each other will often do it in different ways, with different audiences. Or they might not even be trying to do things differently than an existing group, simply trying to do things better. They’ll learn bits along the way about how their approach works, and how they’re able to do better than other groups. Maybe the same advice-seekers will then get to hear different perspectives on their career or maybe more advice-seekers will get support. Either way, I think we can consider ourselves as being overall part of the same team, where the work we engage in helps each other’s ends. Probably Good is a great example of an organisation with a lot of similarities to 80,000 Hours in mission and style, but which is very much adding to the knowledge base and support network people can draw on in figuring out their career. The idea of leaving a whole large area to one or two organisations to cover sounds like saying that Harvard should shut down its Physics research because MIT has it covered!

 

1on1 team plans

I don’t think anyone should feel the need to take our plans into account when trying out a new project since having a bunch of us working on the same things sounds good. But I think it could be useful for people to know about specific gaps we’re leaving, in case that inspires them to fill those. With that in mind, here is a brief description of the 1on1 team plans. 

We expect to scale up our efforts considerably, but to continue using a similar model for advising over the coming few years: 

 Over the coming year we’re hoping to expand our work in two key ways:

 

There are lots of different approaches to ours that people could take in this space. Here are a couple of them: 

Likewise there are many different approaches to the activities I described we planned to expand into in future. For example: 

 

Have a go!

I tried to make a few suggestions of projects I might be excited to see. But most of the exciting projects are ones I won’t have thought of, and will be born of someone’s realisation of a problem in the space, and enthusiasm for solving it. 

If you have an idea, have a go at it! Write it up and get comments on the forum. Apply for funding from the EA Infrastructure Fund or the FTX Future Fund

EA is starting to be large enough that it’s hard to keep track of all the various projects going on — and that’s how it should be. But it can still be stressful that there’s no central place to figure out what all the projects are, and to feel like you’re running the risk of duplicating effort. People in EA are also unusually likely to be keen on keeping a strict focus on their current project, and be hesitant to take time away from that to think through other projects. That can add to the stress of wondering whether you’re doing the right thing. Unfortunately, I think it’s really hard to ever really know the answer to that. But one of the things that sets EAs apart from the rest of the world is that we’re willing to take risks if we think they’re positive in expectation — to try out new, sometimes risky things in the service of others.

If you’re interested to chat to our team about an idea you have, or about your career more broadly, please do apply!


 

7 comments

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comment by omernevo (omernev@gmail.com) · 2022-06-22T09:50:49.047Z · EA(p) · GW(p)

Thank you Michelle for posting this!

I wanted to add that when we founded Probably Good, we were also worried of exactly the sort of things detailed here. The reality turned out to be much better than we had even hoped: We contacted 80k and everyone on the team were incredibly supportive. This is both true in their attitude (being happy to see more people in this space) and also in practice (with advice and help along the way).

So I'm very happy to say that I agree. There's still lots of areas to explore in EA career advice and the people at 80k are far far nicer than you'd expect from someone when you tell them you want to 'compete'* with them.

Besides that, naturally, if we (Probably Good) can help people with advice or anything else, we'd be more than happy to!

 

 

* I know, it's not really competing. We really are genuienly working towards common goals.

comment by Luke Freeman (lukefreeman) · 2022-06-22T05:21:42.826Z · EA(p) · GW(p)

Thanks Michelle for posting this! I think it really helps to clarify what 80K is doing and what it's not and to encourage people to fill the gaps (and even compete, well!).

I love the collaborative nature of the community and this is a great example.

comment by Yonatan Cale (hibukki) · 2022-06-22T18:32:13.861Z · EA(p) · GW(p)

Hey, I offer [EA · GW] many of these things for software developers, feel free to contact me

comment by MichaelPlant · 2022-06-23T14:41:06.805Z · EA(p) · GW(p)

Could you please say a little bit more about the things 80k does vs doesn't plan to do? It wasn't clear to me from your post what you think would be (1) replication of 80k's work and, if relevant, (2) replication 80k would object to. Even if there's nothing in (2), people might still think "well, if 80k is basically going to do X, I should do something else".

FWIW, my model of 80k is that it plans to do careers advising focusing heavily (but not entirely) on longtermism. Hence, I interpreted your post as saying "feel free to do careers advising in other areas as well as various other career-related projects!"

Replies from: Michelle_Hutchinson
comment by Michelle_Hutchinson · 2022-06-23T17:00:12.044Z · EA(p) · GW(p)

Sorry I wasn't clear: We not only don't object to replication - we're actively enthusiastic about it.  I think a healthy ecosystem has a bunch of different people trying to do the same thing and seeing how they go. 

Since I run the 1on1 team, I'm not well placed to comment on what 80k as a whole plans to do. 

You're right that the majority, but not all, of people we talk to have some interest in helping others over the longterm as well as present day. I expect that to continue being mostly true, at least over the coming year.

comment by Lee McC · 2022-06-23T23:10:40.914Z · EA(p) · GW(p)

I am working on setting up an EA recruiting agency, and through dozens of conversations with people in the last month, I can confirm that there is a wide variety of opportunities and needs!  
To add and expand on some listed, I made some bullet points below. These ideas aren’t deeply considered yet but point to some possible opportunities from what I’ve been hearing.

HR/ Hiring Support for Organizations 
   * Helping new and rapidly growing orgs improve their hiring.
   * Resources for designing work tests, interview questions, screenings, etc, even for established orgs. 
   * Legal resources and consulting, especially around work visas and labor laws in different countries for global orgs

Coaching/Support for Job Seekers
   * More in-depth career coaching, including accountability and encouragement through a whole job search. 
   * Group workshops on career planning. 
   * More counseling and support for people in specific fields and interests.

Mentorship of Current Job Holders
   * Potential for more professional organizations/mentorship for people who are hired into roles that are new for them. A lot of EA orgs are relatively small and may not have built-in mentorship from people more senior— other ways to set up professional growth and development opportunities.

Niche Recruitment. There’s some happening in each of these already - but certainly room for continued work and expansion into other fields.  
   * AI Safety, especially people with experience (there is some energy around this) 
   * Mid-career professionals from outside EA (this is getting off the ground with EA Pathfinder)
   * People with Operations... and often more Administration experience (I don't know of specific recruitment or career coaching around this) 
   * Development Economists and other academic niches for research positions

comment by Sean Lawrence · 2022-06-24T23:53:08.806Z · EA(p) · GW(p)

Thanks for the post, Michelle. I’m currently in the process of co-developing an organisation to increase the quantity of impactful work done by physical engineers. We’ll be looking to offer engineering-specific advice, examples and resources.

We’ll be sharing more information on the forum in the coming weeks and running events at the upcoming conferences. If anyone would like to subscribe to the newsletter, they can do so here: https://forms.gle/zAQKe1pqZHnyQEkV9