Posts

Announcing the EA Gather Town Event Hall as a global hub for online events 2022-08-13T09:01:51.775Z
Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement 2022-08-05T05:27:04.575Z
It's OK not to go into AI (for students) 2022-07-14T15:16:54.076Z
State of the land: Misinformation and its effects on global catastrophic risks 2022-03-21T20:04:08.367Z
How be productive before your baby turns one 2022-02-24T17:21:27.241Z
Effective Altruism & Progress Studies joint meetup! 2022-01-21T19:49:52.390Z
doing more good vs. doing the most good possible 2022-01-02T16:27:14.016Z
Are you an effective altruist or a altruistic rationalist? 2021-10-30T05:48:20.847Z
HOW MUCH MONEY DOES CHANGE COST? 2021-10-30T05:37:13.621Z
The EA movement is neglecting physical goods 2020-06-18T14:39:10.520Z
Ruth Grace Wong, Hayley Cashdollar, Glenn Matlin, Theresa Condor, & Diane Gillespie: Logistics at scale 2017-08-11T08:19:00.000Z
Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Julia Galef, AJ Jacobs, and Will MacAskill: EA in media 2017-08-11T08:19:00.000Z

Comments

Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-14T03:14:21.294Z · EA · GW

I added a new point to the main article relevant to the "skip the landline" model:

  • Innovations developed in high-income countries may have more impact in low-income countries. For example, renewable energy (wind, solar, hydro, etc) was developed in high income countries. But because of energy scarcity, investment in renewable energy has actually been higher in low and middle income countries than in high-income countries, since 2015. (see the Wikipedia article on renewable energy in developing countries)
Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-09T04:33:59.126Z · EA · GW

I find it pretty unlikely that Open Philanthropy and the CEA-branded Effective Altruism movement wouId have the same comparative advantage. My article is targeted to large funders like Open Philanthropy and the FTX Future fund specifically. I also think it's incorrect to categorize all political interventions as ineffective. Clearly some people and some organizations are more effective political agents than others.

Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-07T02:39:59.856Z · EA · GW

I'm a bit confused on where you stand on this: on the one hand, you seem to be suggesting that it's not possible to derive a decent estimate on the likelihood of success, but on the other hand you are still suggesting that you think it is worth funding.

i think any estimate would have a confidence interval so wide that it would be useless. (I said "variance" before; maybe that's a less well known term)

how often do these kinds of social movements/reforms work

I think I've cited a pretty good example with the conservative legal movement. My belief is that with a good strategy and the right movement, it will work IF there are people obsessed with getting it done over their lifetime. This is obviously a difficult belief to prove true or false.

I especially take issue with the idea of "luck" being factored into the model... it's exactly this kind of question/uncertainty (e.g., the likelihood that the environment will be favorable or that people will be in the right place at the right time) that needs to be made more explicit.

This is difficult for me to swallow because "luck" is a huge factor in how getting things done in politics works. Something happens in the news and suddenly your cause area becomes super easy or super hard to advance. I'm not sure how this can be made more explicit in a model. Here's an example in criminal justice reform that I was recently reading about: ALEC is a big conservative think tank. You would never think that they would be for criminal justice reform. But some outreach from pro-reform conservatives over time PLUS media outrage about their "Stand your ground" law that people blamed for the killing of Trayvon Martin made it possible.

Curious where the crux of our disagreement is: Would you agree that some things that can't be measured are still worth doing? And is your belief also that pushing the abundance agenda can't possibly be more cost-effective than donations to AMF?

Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-06T18:22:54.170Z · EA · GW

I don't think it's possible to do an analysis that makes sense at all, given that outcomes are so high variance and depends so much on the skill and strategy and luck of the people working on it. That doesn't mean no one should work on it. Open Philanthropy and the FTX future fund are uniquely positioned to be able to get effective at this kind of work and drive the kind of results no one else can

And I think they know this and have been trying; OpenPhil has done work in land use reform and criminal justice reform, for example. I'm not complaining about what people choose to do or not do, but I think my original statement about EA being biased against difficult-to-measure things is correct and makes sense with an evidence-based ideology

Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-06T00:19:57.723Z · EA · GW

the only organizations I know that are trying to get low-income countries to become high-income countries are the World Bank, IMF, and Growth Teams

Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-06T00:19:08.967Z · EA · GW

I think I'm convinced that getting low-income countries to develop into high-income countries is more important than the abundance agenda. OpenPhil has so much money that I'm pretty sure they should do both. As far as I know, they aren't doing either. A country is not going to develop through malarial net donations.

Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-05T19:43:59.604Z · EA · GW

Yes, this is an interesting problem with new smart/planned cities! Probably not a problem with New York, San Francisco, and San Jose though

Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-05T14:31:45.566Z · EA · GW

Thank you Vaidehi! I worked really hard on this and I'm glad it shows :)

Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-05T14:20:53.521Z · EA · GW

appreciate your comment! Thanks for posting

I agree on the natural areas point; I would hope that we can increase density without decreasing the density of parks and playgrounds (though I would definitely be okay with decreasing the size of big ones that don't serve that many people)

I am wary of arguments that we need to do other difficult to do things like improving transit before we can build housing because the practical result is that nothing is going to be done at all, which is worse than if we build more housing and then people had to campaign or lobby to get the transit fixed to accommodate.

Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-05T14:16:27.755Z · EA · GW

What do you think of what I wrote in the post about the USA being like a low income country within a high income country when it comes to health and poverty? I think there's value in making that not happen in high income countries , and it seems more tractable to me than developing a low income country because of the money is already there to do it

Comment by ruthgrace on Open Philanthropy should fund the abundance agenda movement · 2022-08-05T13:02:50.856Z · EA · GW

thanks for your comment! I'm sure a lot of people reading this are thinking the same thing. Effective altruism in general is biased against systemic change due to it being difficult to measure and outcomes being diffuse. From my post

Pushing an abundance agenda means working towards a world where everyone expects business and government decisions to prioritize the supply of essential goods and services.

This isn't a list of policies, this is a cultural shift. Sure, I've listed a bunch of directly positive effects in my examples, but if this goal was actually achieved, it would mean a restoration of democracy[1] and trust in government. This is mitigating future harm done when business interests propose policy that stalls innovation and leads to shortages. And lack of trust in government and other public institutions is one of the big reasons it has been so difficult to fight this pandemic. You would never be able to calculate the value of building the kind of movement that reflects a change in public opinion in of QALYs. But I think it's really important that this work be done, especially in the context of people who are doing large scale movement building for non altruistic reasons, continually eroding democracy and trust in government. Without willingness to accept these kinds of diffuse outcomes, the scale of change that effective altruism can accomplish is limited.


  1. legislators disproportionality responsive to economic elites and business lobby that influence of average citizen is zero. Paper: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B Washington Post article responding to criticisms: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/05/23/critics-challenge-our-portrait-of-americas-political-inequality-heres-5-ways-they-are-wrong/ ↩︎

Comment by ruthgrace on It's OK not to go into AI (for students) · 2022-07-20T15:25:14.844Z · EA · GW

I disagree with 2) because I think the movement will be able to get more done with more diverse backgrounds of people who are really good at different things. Even if AI is the most important thing, we need people who understand communications, policy, organizing grassroots movements, and also people who are good at completely unrelated fields who can understand the impact of AI on their field (manufacturing, agricuture, shipping logistics, etc) though there aren't those opportunities to do that work directly in AI right now.

Comment by ruthgrace on Survey: Legal needs in EA and longtermism · 2022-07-15T04:44:27.097Z · EA · GW

Is the survey for people who work at EA orgs? People who work at organizations that identify as being EA aligned? Or any person doing some kind of direct work (for example at an organization that may not identify with effective altruism even if the individual who works there does)?

Comment by ruthgrace on It's OK not to go into AI (for students) · 2022-07-15T02:32:11.198Z · EA · GW

Yes! Also I suspect that people who think that AI is by far the most important problem might be more concentrated in the san Francisco bay area, compared to other cities with a lot of effective altruists, like London. Personally I think we probably already have enough people working on AI but I was worried about getting downvoted if i put that in my original post, so I scoped it down to something I thought everybody could get on board with (that people shouldn't feel bad about not working on AI)

Comment by ruthgrace on It's OK not to go into AI (for students) · 2022-07-14T19:28:08.477Z · EA · GW

Yes that's exactly it! Even if a lot of people think that AI is the most important problem to work on, I would expect only a small minority to have a comparative advantage. I worry that students are setting themselves up for burnout and failure by feeling obligated to work on what's been billed as some as the most pressing/impactful cause area, and I worry that it's getting in the way of people exploring with different roles and figuring out and building out their actual comparative advantage

Comment by ruthgrace on Seven (more) learnings from LEEP · 2022-07-13T05:18:07.878Z · EA · GW

It's my understanding that in places like Malawi, the paints are oil based and can be manufactured without advanced equipment, whereas in developed countries the paints are latex based and require more complicated equipment to produce the proper emulsion. I'm curious if the manufacturers that you are working with are simply replacing the pigments and continuing with oil-based manufacturing?

Comment by ruthgrace on Hiking: an analogy for sustainable work · 2022-06-01T15:08:21.696Z · EA · GW

Love this post!

In software engineering culture, "forced vacation" is not done so much for the good of the person taking it, but the good of the team to make sure that they are set up to reliably cover the person taking the vacation as practice in case anything happens to that person (they might leave or fall ill). It's probably easier for software engineers to substitute for each other than for you to figure out all the different people that would need to cover different aspects of your leadership role though.

Comment by ruthgrace on EA coworking/lounge space on gather.town · 2022-04-27T01:05:01.863Z · EA · GW

i love this and have been using it a bunch! the cuckoo coworking timer has been down today, though :(

Comment by ruthgrace on State of the land: Misinformation and its effects on global catastrophic risks · 2022-04-02T05:06:12.669Z · EA · GW

Yes, I agree! I think "too much information and people have a difficult time telling what to trust" is a more accurate and nuanced descriptor than "misinformation"! and that your point about

more general improvements in communication strategies/governance/economic growth could be more important.

would go a really long way.

I wonder that if people could more generally feel like they had a say and a stake in the way that the country is run, to the point where a regular person could advocate for improvements for themselves and their communities, that there would be more understanding and trust in government and public health institutions. I suspect that when people feel like they're screwed, it makes the situation more ripe for misinformation to affect people. Here's a paper that talks about how sharers of misinfo are more likely to express existentially based needs (e.g. fear of death or other threats). https://arxiv.org/pdf/2203.10560.pdf

Comment by ruthgrace on How be productive before your baby turns one · 2022-03-10T06:35:14.614Z · EA · GW

I assumed they were talking about situations where the young toddler was being breastfed still.

Comment by ruthgrace on How be productive before your baby turns one · 2022-03-10T04:25:39.660Z · EA · GW

I would like to push back on the points in your comment. I think parents in this forum are familiar with the concept of weighing a for sure benefit against much more uncertain risk. Caffeine, White noise, and temperature control can have a very significant and immediate benefit to parental and child well-being. For caffeine, I think most parents would report that it helps for thinking straight and staying calm to have that kind of cognitive boost in the morning. Maybe things would be different if we were 50 years into the future, and caffeine became a scheduled drug based on its addictive properties, but given that caffeine usage is so common, and the benefits are so great, I don't think it makes sense to be advising parents to avoid caffeine at this time -- It's not going to make your kid worse off than other kids in any meaningful way (unless you are having an unreasonable amount of caffeine). If you are worried about your child's brain development, there are many other interventions that have much less of a negative effect on the parent that I would advise doing instead, like iron and vitamin D fortification, and filtering flouride out of tap water. Similarly for white noise and temperature control. If baby is not sleeping that's probably much worse for their development, and also much worse for everyone's well-being, than any risks associated with white noise and temperature control.

Overall, I would say that this level of worrying and research about these kinds of details is counter to my parenting goal of trying to enjoy the experience of being with my kids. Anything you Google related to parenting will come up with risks. The only reliably helpful parenting advice I've found is stuff by Emily Oster, an economist who looks at the data and writes about what is actually worth worrying about, and what isn't.

Comment by ruthgrace on How be productive before your baby turns one · 2022-02-24T22:08:16.210Z · EA · GW

I'm glad you liked it! My kids are still pretty young, but I'm told it gets much easier as they get older, at least in terms of having enough time and sleep to do things you want to do. Anyone who has older kids -- I'd love to hear how your productivity potential has changed based on how old your kids are.

Comment by ruthgrace on Donations and budgeting, 15 years in · 2022-02-24T17:42:48.464Z · EA · GW

It's very cool to hear your and Jeff's inner thoughts and motivations on how much to give, and how you converge on something that works for you both. Thanks for sharing.

Also I got so much joy from the surprise super adorable baby in the middle of your post!! Congrats!

Comment by ruthgrace on doing more good vs. doing the most good possible · 2022-01-17T05:53:31.571Z · EA · GW

Hmmm, I think this is not quite what I am after. If I understand correctly, what you're saying is that we should normalize people having a limited allotment for their "third bucket" budget for saving the world. What I am saying is that we should normalize anyone doing any kind of altruism who is mindful of effectiveness within the work that they are doing.

Comment by ruthgrace on doing more good vs. doing the most good possible · 2022-01-05T02:28:44.859Z · EA · GW

Yes, it's very common to fall into this pit of EA burnout and have to dig yourself out! I wish it was less common because it can a really draining experience. And I wonder if it's possible to do things a little differently so that it becomes less common. Sasha Chapin describes this as a "toxic social norm": https://sashachapin.substack.com/p/your-intelligent-conscientious-in

It's true, people in EA talk about how you shouldn't feel guilty and burn out, but burn out still happens because the "toxic social norm" is that in EA we keep thinking about maximizing impact, and that's just difficult to keep optimizing on without burning out.

Comment by ruthgrace on doing more good vs. doing the most good possible · 2022-01-05T02:17:07.054Z · EA · GW

The interesting thing about the strategy described in "How to create a vegan world" is that it would encourage people who don't think about morality at all to start eating more plant-based foods. I think if EA really executed on the content of my post, this could happen with charitable giving. Imagine if we were able to get 10% of the population of developed countries to think of effectiveness when they thought about charities or charitable giving, within their chosen cause area. Maybe it would shift the funding landscape just enough so that more effective charities within a cause area have better SEO and show up first on a Google search. That's what I would love to see.

Comment by ruthgrace on doing more good vs. doing the most good possible · 2022-01-05T02:08:05.872Z · EA · GW

I wish that the effective altruism movement was instead called altruistic rationality. I can't think of a better term than "effective altruism" for optimizing any kind of charitable giving or volunteering that most people in developed countries participate in, but it's difficult to integrate that with the current effective altruism community, given that trying to get people to switch cause areas up front is ineffective and makes people think poorly of the movement. I support both types of activities but the fact that altruistic rationalist activities are called effective altruism, and the fact that most causes are commonly called "non-EA causes" in this movement prevents a broader effective altruism movement from forming.

Comment by ruthgrace on doing more good vs. doing the most good possible · 2022-01-02T21:40:34.183Z · EA · GW

I think generally any kind of criticism of people trying to do good without first having built a relationship on common ground leads to "soldier mindset" where people become defensive about their actions. People who donate money or time by default expect to be thanked and feel good about it, in proportion to the amount of money or time that they donated. I suspect it's always more productive to build a relationship with someone and find out what motivates them to give, and share relevant organizations or articles in line with their motivation, as opposed to approaching with foremost intention to convince people to change. And EAs should definitely have a scout mindset about this -- There's lots of reasons people might not think primarily of effectiveness when donating, and they're not things we should change about people, but things we can build on. E.g. maybe some people donate to what's convenient, or what they read about from a specific publisher that they trust, or this organization did a presentation at their church. That's good to know.

Comment by ruthgrace on doing more good vs. doing the most good possible · 2022-01-02T20:27:22.130Z · EA · GW

Right! And I think we need some clarification of terms. We can't be calling people who are passionate about, say, effective solutions for homelessness in New York City, "non effective altruists". That's divisive and also kinda rude.

I think similar to "chocolate milk" and "milk chocolate", we should have effective altruists, and altruistic rationalists. The second word is the main thing. Anyone who is trying to do any kind of good effectively should be able to call themselves an effective altruist. People who are passionate about doing the most good possible without any bias towards specific people or causes can be called altruistic rationalists. And of course, anyone can do both types of activities, without feeling any shame or guilt.

Comment by ruthgrace on Wikipedia editing is important, tractable, and neglected · 2021-12-03T18:05:47.317Z · EA · GW

The proposal passed!! Everyone who's interested should add themselves as a participant on the official wikiproject! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Effective_Altruism

Comment by ruthgrace on Wikipedia editing is important, tractable, and neglected · 2021-12-03T02:01:21.656Z · EA · GW

I totally agree, and I think this is super exciting!! It looks like someone has already provide really great comprehensive feedback on improvements to the main Effective Altruism article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_altruism):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Effective_altruism/GA1

I started working on these. I could use some community input on the definition of Effective Altruism -- see my post on the Talk page, here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Effective_altruism#Definition_of_Effective_Altruism

Comment by ruthgrace on Are you an effective altruist or a altruistic rationalist? · 2021-10-30T05:51:03.546Z · EA · GW

Which personality result did you get? Is any of it accurate?? Post in the comments below!

Also if you are one of the people I named and want me to correct something, I will do it! Just comment or DM me. I hope I am providing enough comedic value to justify a little roasting...

Comment by ruthgrace on HOW MUCH MONEY DOES CHANGE COST? · 2021-10-30T05:38:28.125Z · EA · GW

Add entries I missed in the comments! What are changes in the world that you appreciate, and how much did they cost?

Want to chat with me about movement building? My DMs are open!

Comment by ruthgrace on Snapshot of a career choice 10 years ago · 2021-09-30T03:32:21.851Z · EA · GW

Yes, this!! I would be very interested in talking to more people who are preparing themselves (building career capital, for example) for a project that doesn't exist yet. If this is you (or has been you in the past), please send me a message! There's a lot more uncertainty in a path like this, but I think more people doing it really raises the bar for what can be possible for EA to accomplish.

Comment by ruthgrace on Snapshot of a career choice 10 years ago · 2021-09-30T03:28:08.167Z · EA · GW

More people should write posts like these!! Do you think it would be helpful for people to write posts at the beginning of the 10 years? Like how they are thinking about their decisions, with the intent of revisiting in 10 years? That might be an easier way to get material if you don't mind waiting 10 years, haha

Comment by ruthgrace on Part 1: EA tech work is inefficiently allocated & bad for technical career capital · 2021-08-13T22:41:50.938Z · EA · GW

As someone who does software and is interning at an established non profit in San Francisco (just doing research, not software engineering), I agree with your points, and I want to get a little bit deeper into the reasons why.

First, I think a lot of the really impactful technical is like, somebody's working on a report and they need to make a pie chart, and they're not that good with Google sheets. And the technical volunteer is really good at Google sheets and can finish the task in 10 minutes. But to get to the point where the technical volunteer was connected to this task, they've had to attend months of weekly meetings where there weren't any technical tasks available. And that time is good time spent understanding the context of the work that the organization does, but won't feel worth it if the technical volunteer's goal for their involvement is to make technical contributions.

Also, I think it's really difficult for non-technical people generally to describe the problem they want a technical person to solve, in a way that makes sense. Like, it's not going to be the way it is at your typical tech job where your manager gives you the specs of the project and you just make it happen the way they asked. People are going to ask you for stuff that isn't possible or is scoped differently from what they need, and to prevent making something that they aren't actually going to be able to use, it's likely that you will spend more time talking to people to learn about their work and how you can best help them than actually coding. And that skill of figuring out how to best help somebody by talking to them is a skill that I think most software engineers don't actually have, unless they are also entrepreneurs who do that kind of thing regularly.

My recommendation for people who are good at computer stuff generally (doesn't have to be as deep as software engineering, but if you are handy with WordPress, and Google sheets, you can be really useful already) who want to help out is to make an effort to be part of the community that is working on a problem that you care about. That way, you will get the context of what exactly people are trying to do, and understand the nature of the work, and when it becomes clear that a technical solution would be really helpful, people trust you to do it in a way that will be helpful, and there's no friction with trying to onboard you because you are already there.

Comment by ruthgrace on Why do EAs have children? · 2021-03-16T00:43:52.160Z · EA · GW

Also, they grow up eventually, so I'll still have lots of time in my life to do other stuff. I have coworkers I look up for being really effective people in their industry, whose kids are fishing high school

Comment by ruthgrace on Why do EAs have children? · 2021-03-16T00:38:48.905Z · EA · GW

I think that if kids would bring you joy, you can fit them into your life plan, and your kids are unlikely to grow up to be evil, it's worth having lots!! There's a lot of big problems in the world and not enough time for our generation to solve 'em. I think I want to have 4, and I'm 3 months from being halfway there :)

Comment by ruthgrace on Parenting: Things I wish I could tell my past self · 2020-09-16T13:04:48.962Z · EA · GW

It's nice to know it's not just me! I'll keep experimenting to see if I can improve things...

Comment by ruthgrace on Parenting: Things I wish I could tell my past self · 2020-09-16T00:18:10.996Z · EA · GW

I have a 17 month old! Something that really helps me have the right mindset is to think about what the point of having a baby is for me, and that's to enjoy the baby. Not to try to force him to be whatever way or optimize for anything.

Other parents, I have a question for you... Are you having issues with sleep? I find that since I had my son, I've been getting sleep deprivation related insomnia, which really kills my productivity/mood/etc for a couple days each month. Anyone had this issue and found a way to fix it?

Comment by ruthgrace on Consider a wider range of jobs, paths and problems if you want to improve the long-term future · 2020-07-02T00:41:08.120Z · EA · GW

Hey, if anyone is interested or already immersed in engineering physical goods or supply chain/logistics as their skillset, I want to be your buddy. DM me!

Comment by ruthgrace on The EA movement is neglecting physical goods · 2020-06-20T04:55:18.492Z · EA · GW

Hello!! I think I've seen you speak at local hardware events before. So cool to see you in a different context :)

Comment by ruthgrace on The EA movement is neglecting physical goods · 2020-06-19T18:04:34.082Z · EA · GW

To take a step back, I believe that 'effective altruism' lower case is something much bigger than people with money earning to give to existing charities, and people good at math calculating which charities to give to. Though I imagine both of those activities will remain crucial to the movement.

Comment by ruthgrace on The EA movement is neglecting physical goods · 2020-06-19T18:01:11.453Z · EA · GW

Yes, I've seen many wonderful talks within EA about operations, that is, running effective organizations. (I'm having trouble finding the links but I think there was at least one panel and on talk at EAG SF 2018) And I ran a panel about logistics at scale at EAG 2017 (https://www.eaglobal.org/talks/logistics-at-scale-panel/).

I wish there were were more about how to actually DO the work directly. I've met a few individuals here doing research projects and thinking about how to do things that don't necessarily have industry experience, and I worry that people's calibration for what's feasible and how industry works might be too far off to make effective recommendations.

To provide a real world example, there was a very prescient research poster at EAG SF 2019 showing that in an epidemic where the USA would not be able to rely on out of country medical supplies, the amount of time it takes to start a factory is too long and therefore we should invest in this area. I spoke with the author to ask what he thought about supply chain issues, like getting all the skills, equipment, and materials to make supplies, and he hadn't thought of it and realized that it would be a bigger issue than spinning up factories.

Comment by ruthgrace on The EA movement is neglecting physical goods · 2020-06-19T03:34:40.381Z · EA · GW

I'm currently working on productionizing some copper products in a manufacture engineering / product management role. Reuseable grocery bags and gloves. The gloves idea is my friend Ben WR's. I think the grocery bags will work fine because it's a sewn product and we found some 99.5% copper mesh, but the gloves project is more risky because the copper yarn is 30% copper but 70% polyester and may not retain the same antimicrobial properties. So we will have to find some way to test it.

Overall I think it would be nice to have a better barrier between things that may be contaminated outside your home and cleanliness inside your home. Copper isn't perfect but at least after 4 hours you can be sure it doesn't have any coronavirus on it. If the products sell well, I'll see if I can find a way to add UV disinfecting light to the inside of the bag.

I know the CDC said that surface transmission is unlikely but ... i don't really buy it.

Comment by ruthgrace on EAGxVirtual Unconference (Saturday, June 20th 2020) · 2020-06-13T03:41:50.982Z · EA · GW

I'm very interested in this!! thanks for sharing

Comment by ruthgrace on EAGxVirtual Unconference (Saturday, June 20th 2020) · 2020-06-13T03:39:14.807Z · EA · GW

Thanks, this is really cool !!! I'm interested to see how it compares with Vasagel too -- i met the founder at a previous EA global